Its not a popular message, but its important for you to know that you were born into a rebellious and corrupt race - the human race.
At one time we were not that way, but Adam our Father chose disobedience to God, and sadly that affected us as well. We were born marred by sin.
You may think you are not so bad, but its probably because you are comparing yourself to others you believe are worse than yourself.
What counts though is the way God sees it.
God is the Creator, Lawgiver and Judge. We need to consider what Laws God has given, and measure ourselves by what God has said.
Until we are made new through Jesus Christ, the Bible describes us as "by nature children of wrath" (Ephesians 2:1-3)
Paul writing to the new believers said:
Eph 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
Eph 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
To help us see where we really are at, God gave 10 commandments. The Catholic church has tried to change these, by leaving out the second one, so to remind you I will quote the passage from Exodus in which the Ten Commnandments are given.
Exo 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before me. (1)
Exo 20:4 “You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 you shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them, for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and on the fourth generation of those who hate me,
Exo 20:6 and showing loving kindness to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. (2)
Exo 20:7 “You shall not take the name of Yahweh your God in vain, for Yahweh will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain. (3)
Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 You shall labor six days, and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to Yahweh your God. You shall not do any work in it, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your livestock, nor your stranger who is within your gates;
Exo 20:11 for in six days Yahweh made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore Yahweh blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy. (4)
Exo 20:12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which Yahweh your God gives you. (5)
Exo 20:13 “You shall not murder. (6)
Exo 20:14 “You shall not commit adultery. (7)
Exo 20:15 “You shall not steal. (8)
Exo 20:16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. (9)
Exo 20:17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.” (10)
How does your life measure up to these commandments of God? Have you put God first in your life. Do you esteem God above all else? That is the requirement of the first commandment, and those who break this commandment because they love the world or themselves more than God are lawbreakers here already.
Have you tried to redefine God, not n
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To You AGNOSTIC
I Just read what you have written about hell, that you don't believe it! Just I like to ask you a question: If I believe that California doesn't exist, will that make it Non existence? I urge you to seek what is true instead of what you believe to be true
It is my pleasure to share with you the truth
Feel free to write me, but I sometimes get busy
so don't feel ignored if you write
srhymes2002 at yahoo dot co dot uk ----> No spaces
Love in Jesus
Steve
idols
Michael:
You asked and said: "Do you bow down to idols? If you do, it doesn't matter whether you are a Hindu, a Buddhist or a Christian - you have broken and are breaking the Second Commandment. It makes you guilty before a Holy God."
Do you include a Christian crucifix as an "idol"? Just curious.
Crucifixes
A Christian crucifix can be an idol. If you bow down to it thinking that the thing has power to save you it has become an idol for you. It is interesting that the very bronze snake which typified Christ on the cross (see John 3:14-15) set up by Moses became an idol at one stage and had to be destroyed. I have not got the reference handy in my head but it is in the Old Testament somewhere where this event happened - in the book of Kings no doubt.
making image of heavenly bodies
I BELIEAVE ITS AGAINST GOD'S COMMANDMENTS BUT AT THE VERY TOP OF THIS PAGE THERE'S ONE OF SUCH KIND!! WHAT DO YOU SAY MICHAEL?
children and heaven
Sorry I could not resist but reply back to the message about the children by the agnostic.
There is no place in the bible where God says Children are deceitful. In fact he asks us to be like them, think like them. Even we were like that, though we were conceived by sin, but we grow up to be full of contempt, lies and the list is endless.
The following lines from the bible tells us what Jesus thinks of children. And I beleive that children, will go to heaven, for as Jesus says :"the kingdom of god belongs to them."
Matthew 19:14 - Jesus Blesses Little Children
But Jesus said, “Or Permit the children Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”
We can force anyone to beleive in GOD or HEll, for God has given us the freedom to choose the good or the bad, life or death. So the choice is completely ours. But from my experience, if you want to get close to Jesus, he will always be there for you from now and for ever more, that's a promise.
Praise jesus and may he bless your soul with peace and help you find answers to all your questions.But a humle request my frind, start reading the bible and He HImself will give you the answers. For I know he loves you and can not bear to see you get hurt.
A sinner who found life and hope in jesus
Lets see if what I said was right
I wrote "God sees us all as rotten until we are made new through Jesus Christ".
Its not a quote from the Bible. Is it true? We can debate that. By rotten I mean physically and morally corrupt. Our flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. It needs to be changed. That will happen later. (Romans 8:23). Our flesh and blood is like everything in this world slowly falling apart. Our brains also start to lose function after some time.
But worse than that, "our righteousness is as filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6 and according to the book of Romans, chapter 3
Rom 3:10 As it is written,“There is no one righteous;
no, not one.
Rom 3:11 There is no one who understands.
There is no one who seeks after God.
Rom 3:12 They have all turned aside. They have together become unprofitable. There is no one who does good,
no, not, so much as one.”[2]
Rom 3:13 “Their throat is an open tomb. With their tongues they have used deceit.”[3]
“The poison of vipers is under their lips;”[4]
Rom 3:14 “whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”[5]
Rom 3:15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood.
Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways.
Rom 3:17 The way of peace, they haven’t known.”[6]
Rom 3:18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”[7]
Gen 6:5 Yahweh saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Even though we are rotten and fallen before Christ changes us, God still loves us. But where in the Bible does it say why God loves us? I think the answer is because it is His nature.
You are quoting errant
You are quoting errant thoughts with true and immutable scripture as though they are equals. Only one of your four quotes is scripture. The question is not "when does a child's heart become wicked?" it is "when does a wicked man's heart become like a child's?"
It is not the understanding of religion that saves a person, such understanding often dooms a person. God is not into religion, he is into relationship.
It seems like you have a quarrel with the Living God who says,
Eze 33:11-20 "Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
"When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
"Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right; If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
"None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
"Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: [is this where you are at Agnostic?] but as for them, their way is not equal. When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby. But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
"Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways."
God is not a god of logic. He is a God of relationship. "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not to your understanding." This is where you will not be able to follow. Also, God is not interested in proving his logic to anyone. He clearly states his ways are higher than our ways and they are foolishness to those who are learned.
Your logic will not lead you to Jesus, nor will it lead me away.
May you come to know Him, He desires to save you.
Pro 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Pro 8:14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
Pro 8:15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
Pro 8:16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
Pro 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
Pro 8:18 Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
Pro 8:19 My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
Pro 8:20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
Pro 8:21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.
I would not worry about the children, I would worry about myself, an adult who sat on the fence demanding an answer from the One who is the Judge of the Earth. God is gracious and we may all be surprised at His provision for the children. You are his child, do not hide from Him behind your questions. He wants to bless you.
Tim
If you read carefully, you
If you read carefully, you would see that i am quoting Michael.
are you saying that michael is wrong?
don't get me wrong, i am not trying to lead you away from Jesus. I am interested in your reasons for believing the things you do.
"I would not worry about the children, I would worry about myself, an adult who sat on the fence demanding an answer from the One who is the Judge of the Earth"
don't worry about the children? if you say so Tim. Though that is hardly an answer for me now is it.
Oh well, seeing as i am leaving this site after a short and enlightening visit i see no harm in telling you, i am no more "an adult who (is) sat on the fence demanding an answer from the One who is the Judge of the Earth" than i am "the One who is the Judge of the Earth" Himself.
I am a 16 year old catholic girl. As a precaution against sexism and mockery at me because of my young age i set my profile to Male and did not enter an age. (I especially like how you addressed me as though i was a homosexual in our other debate.)
I was simply requesting an answer from you, my dear Tim, not God. I already believe in God, although, i am afraid not to an extent that you would be satisfied with.
besides, again to your view of homosexuals, if the God that exists damns homosexuals for loving truly then i would rather go to hell for not worshipping him along with my gay friends. Looks like its the burning lakes of sulphur for me.
Thankyou for our interesting conversations, it has been fun. :)
Loving and lusting for flesh are two different things
There is nothing wrong with a close friendship between two people of the same sex, in which likes and dislikes are shared, and a close emotional bond results.
But lusting after and indulging in unnatural sexual acts is something totally different to "loving".
Your background many be Catholic, but this is one area where the Catholic church would be in agreement with me anyway - that God is against homosexuality. Its sad that the Roman Catholic church is against its church leaders marrying though - this is Anti-Scripture (1 Timothy 4:2, 1 Timothy 3) and causes a lot of sexual temptation and sin in other ways. One of the ways this is happening of course is through the homosexual sins of the Roman Catholic clergy.
By the way, in hell there will be no friendship, no parties, no pleasurable indulgences. Only an eternal regret and self-condemnation for rejecting the call of God to salvation.
i wont need pleasurable
i wont need pleasurable indulgences, and i have not been to many parties that were worth going to so no loss there :) i don't see why i would have an eternal regret by sticking by what i believe to be right.
You are right, i may have a Catholic Background but i still disagree with some things. For one, i don't believe in hell. i will simply cease to exist as anything more than a collection of molecules, having no conciousness left with only the differences i have made to some peoples lives to show i ever existed. They too will die out. Which in my opinion is worse.
I really want to believe, i really do. To believe in Heaven and angels etc. It would be so...liberating. I don't just don't think i have the ability too. I am too empirical.
you are right, loving and lusting for flesh are two different things
but so are physical love and lusting for flesh
its the difference between making love and f**king
one is meaningful and symbolic, the other is not
what i don't understand is...
"The heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked"
"God is faithful to save everyone who sincerely comes to Him in childlike faith."
I am interested to know at which point you believe the heart of a child turns into one that is "deceitful above all things and desperately wicked"
"We were born marred by sin"
"God sees us all as rotten until we are made new through Jesus Christ"
Now, by that logic, any children that die before they even understand religion are doomed. Is that so?
Rotten until we are made new through Jesus Christ
I am very curious ...Where did you get this quote????If this came from the Bible what version??? I have read some of your other posts and you do have a soul and it was in you before you were ever born. This soul is what God cares for more than anything else that you have. It is not your talents or gifts or your looks or your intelligence or your wealth or any of your status but it is your soul that is more precious than anything ....It is your soul that Jesus Christ shed His Blood for.. It is your soul that He took upon His body your sins and said that if you come unto Me I will no way cast you out for you are very valuable to Me and you are worth every drop of Blood that I shed for you. Do not continue to be stubborn but eagerly accept what He has done for you and will do for you when you accept His forgiveness....You will be utterly amazed at what will happen in your life...He promises you a new life IF and that is the word IF you will come to Him for His love for you is greater than any other love....You make the choice and you will never regret this choice as other choices you have made in your past.
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