Vatican text say others are not really churches

I refer to the article on BBC news, Vatican text angers Protestants.

It begins by saying, "Pope Benedict has approved a new text asserting that Christian denominations outside Roman Catholicism are not true Churches in the full sense of the word."

And further, concerning this document:

"Other Christian denominations, it argues, cannot be called Churches in the proper sense because they cannot trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles."

It is good for the Roman Catholic church to state their position openly, which they do from time to time. Despite all the overtures to other denominations, the real position of the Roman church is here.

It is my position that already by the Second Century the foundations for the apostacy that is the Roman Catholic church were laid by people like Ignatius and even Irenaeus.

It is these writers who, in seeking a trump card against the heretics of the day, especially gnostics, chose to appeal to an argument based on their own position as church leaders rather than an appeal to the Scriptures.

Now to me it is not very relevant whether you can trace a line of bishops back to St.Peter or one of the other 12. The Orthodox church, by the way, can do this, at least as much as the Catholics. They were both slightly divergent streams of the same error whose leaders ended up condemning each other in the 11th century. The fact that this Vatican document excludes the "Orthodox" even though they appeal to the same kind of reasoning about having a chain of relationships back to the apostles via bishops, just shows how its more about claiming pre-eminence than loving the truth.

I am prepared to state that a true church is one where people are led together by the Holy Spirit to gather in Jesus' name. The Holy Spirit DOES NOT need a bishop to lay hands on someone to make this real.

In the book of Acts, many churches were founded even before apostles could get to those places. The important church at Antioch is a case in point. The apostles only came in later to strengthen the church, appoint leaders and put things in order.

Time and time again the Holy Spirit proves He can work in people's lives without some bishop being involved. This website documents a lot of contemporary proof for that statement. But Ignatius says, "Do nothing without the bishop". I am glad the Holy Spirit does not listen to the words of Ignatius.

These appeals to chains of bishops are fundamental to the claims of the Roman and Orthodox churches. But by whose authority do these arguments stand? These arguments appeal to an authority that comes ultimately from some second century church leaders and

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